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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:07 pm 
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bonbon wrote:
Thanks, Sky, for your comments - I looked for you here all day...
It was just so sad...and (I think) my brain didn't want to accept what I was seeing.
:1val:


I know...I am so sorry I wasn't here...Something like this is never easy to watch and ya never get used to it...I can remember my first nest deaths like they were yesterday..ya just feel so helpless...and then ya realize how attached you've become..nope..never gets easy...One of the few things I have learned over the years, is sometimes I just have to turn off the cam, collect myself, then decide if I'm gonna turn it back on...but, we come back, year after year after year...always hoping for the best!!

...and yes, I did read on the AZ FB page, that this little one was a male...I think they posted that info several hours ago..I can't exactly remember what they said about it though...


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Shepherd wrote:
sky - yes - GSB is an example of that
After the 4 juvies fell they put up a bar
(no, not one that serves drinks!)
2 of the juvies fell thru a gap between the box and outer perch

A MALE?!
AZ had told us after the chick was taken before she was female!
Rocky was so beautiful. :egg10:

Others besides me have posted AZ needs to put the box on the roof or in a place where chick doesnt have a sheer drop off



:sorrow:


:eggthumbup:
:1val:


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:21 pm 
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Hope mom and dad are doing well here! :flirty:


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Here is a FB post from one of the Biologists. I'll find his email address - Maybe some of our "experts" (and I'm being absolutely serious here) will contact him:
(I was not able to find his email address, but here is a phone number for the Phoenix office: 602-942-3000, and here's a link to a "Comments" page: http://www.azgfd.gov/comments.shtml
Randy Babb
2 hrs
..
All, I am back from Vietnam (arrived late Wednesday night and had meeting in Phoenix yesterday- many which concerned the peregrines). I wanted to take a moment touch base with everyone concerning a few things. First we will be shutting down the Phoenix peregrine cam for the season in the next few days (probably Saturday). As you can see there is little activity at the nest (as anticipated) so there really isn't much to watch. I am sorry that this year's nesting season was so disappointing. It just seemed the poor birds couldn't catch a break. We will anew next season and probably start streaming in Feb or March when activity starts again at the nest. If they use this site again (I think they will) there will be all manner of interesting pair bonding taking place at the nest site early on and it is very interesting to watch. Also we are considering one last live chat sometime next week to answer questions about this year’s nesting season. Is that something you all would be interested in? If this comes to fruition, I will post something here to let everyone know.
Many of you have asked about or made suggestions regarding changes to the box and I want you all to know we will consider every one of them. But I imagine the nesting box will look much the same next year. There is only so much that the birds will tolerate. If we cause the falcons to abandon the nest they may select a site less optimal nesting location. The ten plus years prior to this season, the pair only had one chick survive to fledging because they chose an exposed copper rain gutter for a nest site....talk about hot! It was only when the old female disappeared and the current female arrived that they decided to use this nest box. Peregrines tend to select nest site which are difficult for predator's to reach and afford open hunting areas nearby. Every peregrine nest I have ever seen has been located in a precipitous situation such as a cliff face. These conditions are mimicked by high-rise buildings in cities around the world. It is typical for chicks to act just as our little guy did, getting out of the nest and strolling around on ledges, prior to fledging. This is probably the most dangerous time for chicks at the nest site and many do not survive. Please don’t hesitate to contact me or others at the Arizona Game and Fish Department if you have any questions. You all have thrown some good ones my way, I tried to answer them all and if I missed any I apologize for the oversite. This camera is one of the programs I oversee at the AZ Game and Fish Dept. for the Wildlife Viewing Program. We have another camera on our Whitewater draw wildlife area which is a winter roost for thousands of sandhill cranes. Check it out if you get a chance, I think you will fall in love with those birds too. We also host a variety of public programs from bat netting and watching to night hikes. Some of these are free others cost a nominal fee. If you find something you are interested in we would love to see you again. We have a bighorn sheep viewing boat tour on Canyon Lake June 18th and 19 and few slots open if that is something you think you would like to try you can register by calling the dept at 623-236-7589. Thank you again for all your kindness, concern, and comradery. It was an emotional ride. I feel like I made some friends here. Please stay in touch.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Gosh, I thought they had already shut it down. This is the 1st time since the incident, that I have been able to get the cam. Thanks, bonbon!


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Thanks for bringing that here, bonbon. Randy Babb makes a good point about messing with their territory [box] too much. Although many of us thought the box location was precarious, it is better than some. Keeping fingers crossed that 2017 will be a better year for this family.

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:48 pm 
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Thanks so much, bonbon, for posting that!! I actually have been checking the cam, but its never pointed toward the box (at least while I've been watching) It does make sense to shut it down for the season, so I understand that.

Now, I'm by far from being an expert on falcons, but I, and many of you, are "expert" peregrine falcon cam watchers!! We've each communicated with our share of biologists and some of you have worked personally with them at your own sites, so you are at least 1 step above expert pefa cam watchers!!

I do know you have to be careful when messing with boxes..and that may be especially true with this couple..she being a (probable) first time Mom AND they lost a chick. some say that's enough to make a falcon couple move locations...but, off the top of my head, I can't think of an incidence where that has been true. I think Richmond and Gulf are the exceptions to that "rule"..Who knows why the Gulf pair like to change things up...and I think Ozzie and Harriet (Richmond) are just down right stubborn..but, for the majority of their years, they have used the same box, on the same ledge. Heck, if anything could make a falcon pair move, it would be that darn cage that goes up every year to prevent early fledge!!

Also, for the vast majority of boxes we watch, chicks are removed for banding, boxes are cleaned, gravel replaced, etc. and pairs stick around. I think we've all learned that a territory (and a box) sometimes is more important than a mate (sigh) In addition to routine maintenance, alterations are made to boxes to make them safer..topeka is a prime example. they added those ledge platforms, because they lost chicks 2 years in a row because they would try to jump from box to perch and just couldn't make it. The resident pair didn't bat an eyelash and took it all in stride!!

Here's the other thing I have learned by being an expert cam watcher...we know a lot more about adult and chick behaviors than biologists do. For one reason, they don't have time to sit around and watch the cams they stream...and we do. When it comes to pefa behavior on the wing and the field, I humbly bow to them. Case in point: Several years ago when Salt Lake City set up their very first falcon cam (boy I have missed them the past two year) Their biologist used to call me, wanting to know if a certain behavior was normal!! It was so cute. It was the first time he had ever had the opportunity to watch a nesting pair, with eggs, then young, then fledges. The poor guy had NO CLUE what he was seeing and certain things that you and I now take as "normal" would freak him out...and he would call..and I'd have to reassure him that all was ok!! LOL..Needless to say, after that first year, he never felt the need to call again. Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot, and I'd been in the field with him, I would have been the one freaking out.

My point, is that sometimes, when it comes to falcon box behavior, we DO know what we are talking about. Would I move this box? I don't know. Would I place an alternative box on the roof and let the falcons choose? Maybe!! (Columbus did this because they were afraid that the box would have to be removed because of much needed maintenance on the ledge~Did Durand and Spark visit the new location? as far as anyone knows, the answer is no) Would I make sure more gravel was in the box? Yes...would I add a platform with sides to the front of the box? yes Would I check ventilation on that box? yes Would I see if it were possible to pull it out of that alcove? maybe, but probably not..then there would be no small ledge for the chicks to explore when they were ready. If there was a "porch" with sides, then maybe the chicks would explore the ledge later rather than sooner. (The topeka kids are usually content lounging on their platform before trying to make the leap to the roof top...their box hangs OVER the roof, so its a straight drop down.)

Just some of my thoughts...and my soapbox...I'm gonna try to get a message to Mr. Babb. He certainly sounds approachable!!


Oh..and in case anybody has forgotten what this looks like from the outside: (I had)



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:29 pm 
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skygirlblue wrote:
Thanks so much, bonbon, for posting that!! I actually have been checking the cam, but its never pointed toward the box (at least while I've been watching) It does make sense to shut it down for the season, so I understand that.

Now, I'm by far from being an expert on falcons, but I, and many of you, are "expert" peregrine falcon cam watchers!! We've each communicated with our share of biologists and some of you have worked personally with them at your own sites, so you are at least 1 step above expert pefa cam watchers!!

I do know you have to be careful when messing with boxes..and that may be especially true with this couple..she being a (probable) first time Mom AND they lost a chick. some say that's enough to make a falcon couple move locations...but, off the top of my head, I can't think of an incidence where that has been true. I think Richmond and Gulf are the exceptions to that "rule"..Who knows why the Gulf pair like to change things up...and I think Ozzie and Harriet (Richmond) are just down right stubborn..but, for the majority of their years, they have used the same box, on the same ledge. Heck, if anything could make a falcon pair move, it would be that darn cage that goes up every year to prevent early fledge!!

Also, for the vast majority of boxes we watch, chicks are removed for banding, boxes are cleaned, gravel replaced, etc. and pairs stick around. I think we've all learned that a territory (and a box) sometimes is more important than a mate (sigh) In addition to routine maintenance, alterations are made to boxes to make them safer..topeka is a prime example. they added those ledge platforms, because they lost chicks 2 years in a row because they would try to jump from box to perch and just couldn't make it. The resident pair didn't bat an eyelash and took it all in stride!!

Here's the other thing I have learned by being an expert cam watcher...we know a lot more about adult and chick behaviors than biologists do. For one reason, they don't have time to sit around and watch the cams they stream...and we do. When it comes to pefa behavior on the wing and the field, I humbly bow to them. Case in point: Several years ago when Salt Lake City set up their very first falcon cam (boy I have missed them the past two year) Their biologist used to call me, wanting to know if a certain behavior was normal!! It was so cute. It was the first time he had ever had the opportunity to watch a nesting pair, with eggs, then young, then fledges. The poor guy had NO CLUE what he was seeing and certain things that you and I now take as "normal" would freak him out...and he would call..and I'd have to reassure him that all was ok!! LOL..Needless to say, after that first year, he never felt the need to call again. Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot, and I'd been in the field with him, I would have been the one freaking out.

My point, is that sometimes, when it comes to falcon box behavior, we DO know what we are talking about. Would I move this box? I don't know. Would I place an alternative box on the roof and let the falcons choose? Maybe!! (Columbus did this because they were afraid that the box would have to be removed because of much needed maintenance on the ledge~Did Durand and Spark visit the new location? as far as anyone knows, the answer is no) Would I make sure more gravel was in the box? Yes...would I add a platform with sides to the front of the box? yes Would I check ventilation on that box? yes Would I see if it were possible to pull it out of that alcove? maybe, but probably not..then there would be no small ledge for the chicks to explore when they were ready. If there was a "porch" with sides, then maybe the chicks would explore the ledge later rather than sooner. (The topeka kids are usually content lounging on their platform before trying to make the leap to the roof top...their box hangs OVER the roof, so its a straight drop down.)

Just some of my thoughts...and my soapbox...I'm gonna try to get a message to Mr. Babb. He certainly sounds approachable!!


Oh..and in case anybody has forgotten what this looks like from the outside: (I had)




Hi Sky, your thoughts and watching expertise comments are much appreciated by me. They gave me more food for thought. It was so hard to watch this little one towards the end so I chose not too because I was completely drained after watching Dixie and Yankee suffer at their box.
Thank you again. PS I miss the Salt Lake City nest too! I am thinking of little SOLO who unfortunately died.

:eggthumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Sky, thanks for the video as I had not seen this one!


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:36 pm 
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I could make a list (I won't) - but the forum DEFINITELY has experts!
I learn something new here every day - thank you!

Are there any stats on survival of singletons vs clutches (of 2+), i.e., do 'only children' take more risks, fledge sooner (than ready), etc. Do 2+ clutches keep each other company (entertain each other, play, etc.), which may increase their odds of survival?

(The reports about the nests where the kids are flying together are so cool - I wonder if that helps their experience, survival? I would think so... )


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:22 pm 
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bonbon wrote:
I could make a list (I won't) - but the forum DEFINITELY has experts!
I learn something new here every day - thank you!

Are there any stats on survival of singletons vs clutches (of 2+), i.e., do 'only children' take more risks, fledge sooner (than ready), etc. Do 2+ clutches keep each other company (entertain each other, play, etc.), which may increase their odds of survival?

(The reports about the nests where the kids are flying together are so cool - I wonder if that helps their experience, survival? I would think so... )


Great questions, bonbon...and I have no clue, especially regarding only children. I know that discussion comes up periodically when we see only one chick in the nest. Are they lonely/couch potatoes/non-assertive, etc..

We have documented throughout the years that 3-4 chick clutches, like human children/adults, seem to develop "best buds". They sleep and play together, follow each other after fledge and have even been known to migrate together. Do siblings co hunt similar to what some parents do? "I'll flush the pigeons and you get ready to grab one"

Do single chicks hang around longer with parents because they don't have playmates/buddies? I don't know. It would be interesting to know if anybody has researched this with raptors..


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:28 am 
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skygirlblue wrote:
bonbon wrote:
I could make a list (I won't) - but the forum DEFINITELY has experts!
I learn something new here every day - thank you!

Are there any stats on survival of singletons vs clutches (of 2+), i.e., do 'only children' take more risks, fledge sooner (than ready), etc. Do 2+ clutches keep each other company (entertain each other, play, etc.), which may increase their odds of survival?

(The reports about the nests where the kids are flying together are so cool - I wonder if that helps their experience, survival? I would think so... )


Great questions, bonbon...and I have no clue, especially regarding only children. I know that discussion comes up periodically when we see only one chick in the nest. Are they lonely/couch potatoes/non-assertive, etc..

We have documented throughout the years that 3-4 chick clutches, like human children/adults, seem to develop "best buds". They sleep and play together, follow each other after fledge and have even been known to migrate together. Do siblings co hunt similar to what some parents do? "I'll flush the pigeons and you get ready to grab one"

Do single chicks hang around longer with parents because they don't have playmates/buddies? I don't know. It would be interesting to know if anybody has researched this with raptors..


That's exactly what I was wondering, Sky. Maybe I'll ask Craig Koppie - he may know (and he's the only one I know personally (sort of!). :teehee:


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:48 am 
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All good food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:00 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:08 am 
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This is going to be a long haul! :egg15:


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:27 pm 
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One thing I'd like to see them do that wouldn't affect the desirability of the nestbox for the falcons is to drill some airholes in the box. It sounds like that box gets really hot & the air holes would help with circulation.

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:47 pm 
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catwoman wrote:
One thing I'd like to see them do that wouldn't affect the desirability of the nestbox for the falcons is to drill some airholes in the box. It sounds like that box gets really hot & the air holes would help with circulation.




:eggthumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:18 pm 
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Sally wrote:
catwoman wrote:
One thing I'd like to see them do that wouldn't affect the desirability of the nestbox for the falcons is to drill some airholes in the box. It sounds like that box gets really hot & the air holes would help with circulation.




:eggthumbup:

:agree:

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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:32 am 
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kittenface wrote:
Sally wrote:
catwoman wrote:
One thing I'd like to see them do that wouldn't affect the desirability of the nestbox for the falcons is to drill some airholes in the box. It sounds like that box gets really hot & the air holes would help with circulation.




:eggthumbup:

:agree:


:eggthumbup:
The day the little one died, it was 115F in Phoenix. Imagine how hot it was in that box when Dad was with the little one. Horrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix, AZ-2016
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Update posted on FB by Randy Babb:
...Emergency plans in the event of problems with the chicks...
....I have also contacted the Peregrine Fund and expect to hear back from their experts this week on potential nest box renovations. We will be discussing what needs to be done, if anything, to create the best nesting environment we can for the birds. There will obviously be some things we can't fix (hot days for instance) but there may some changes that can be made that will allow us to improve conditions and perhaps enhance survival rates of chicks. I have all your comments and some made earlier to help with these considerations. Thanks!
Also, we are hoping to go live with the cam in late Jan or early Feb so people can watch the pair bonding behavior. Be warned, that the birds will be away from the box most of the time during this period so there will be a lot of "nothing happening" for most of the time. But the pair bonding is really interesting and I think you will enjoy it. I will notify the group when we are ready to start the broadcast season.


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