GREAT SPIRIT BLUFF~2014

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

I saw travis eating the shells...but, what I saw were very small pieces..No clue what egg they came from. Somebody with a lot more knowledge and experience is gonna have to figure all this out.

There are so many reasons why a chick will die during hatch...without collecting the remains, I don't think we are really gonna know for sure.

The baby looks like any new hatchling to me. Still a bobblehead. Pops up quickly vs being slow to respond (those are the ones I worry about unless I know they are just stuffed from a prior feed)..crawls under parent..

Of course, we'll have to keep watch to make sure..

delawaerie · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:51 am **Posts:** 94

Good afternoon Skygirlblue, I have another question! (what else is new, right? lol) Before Michelle laid the eggs and was making scrapes, she was also picking at and may have been eating the old guano that is stuck to the walls. Could that contain calcium, that you had mentioned a diet of to much, may cause the eggshells to be thicker? Something sure is wrong there to be so many failures. I would like to know what RRP's take on all this is but like you said earlier they may be scratching their heads too. I haven't seen anything from them yet, though I haven't checked today either.
:egg16:

bev. · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2014 7:11 pm

I am going to e-mail Gord tomorrow and ask him possible causes . Of course he will not have seen thee but has seen enough in his lifetime to give and educated response.

Not that all o f the thoughts shared are not educated responses. I will jsut throw it out there to him.

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

delawaerie wrote:

Good afternoon Skygirlblue, I have another question! (what else is new, right? lol) Before Michelle laid the eggs and was making scrapes, she was also picking at and may have been eating the old guano that is stuck to the walls. Could that contain calcium, that you had mentioned a diet of to much, may cause the eggshells to be thicker? Something sure is wrong there to be so many failures. I would like to know what RRP's take on all this is but like you said earlier they may be scratching their heads too. I haven't seen anything from them yet, though I haven't checked today either.
:egg16:

Gosh...that's a good one...and I have no clue..but, I wouldn't think so. Believe it or not, embryos can get bacterial and viral infections in the egg, both of which can result in death to the chick right before or right after hatch. (I suppose Michelle could have eaten something infected..) Several years ago at the Richmond nest, the chicks hatched. They didn't look quite right and the membranes in the eggs were dark. Each chick, though they fluffed up and appeared ok, died suddenly, one by one. It was so sad. They never quite concluded what happened, but suspected toxins and also high humidity. Since we're seeing more than a pip, I don't think its a positioning issue within the egg...other than that, I'm afraid I'm still scratching my head.

Bob and Amy have been doing this for a long time and I'm sure they'll put their heads together and come up with some possibilities..

Bev., that's a great idea to ask Gord...I bet he has seen it all. I know he is really busy this time of year, but I bet he might have some theories..

...and now to add to the suspense, RRP forum is reporting a possible second hatch. I guess we're gonna have to wait for a feed tomorrow to see if that is true...I don't think we'll catch Michelle completely off the eggs tonight.

This is all I've been able to see tonight..

a wiggly chick

and what looks like the cracked egg from this afternoon..

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

May 20 Tuesday GSB has ONE hatch only.
BUT WAIT - 5 am M leaves and to add to confusion it sounds like one egg is chupping??
4.06 am Michele gets up and staggers to the perch for a quick shot, then back to Tumbles and 2 eggs.
5 am feeding, Tumbles falls over, but she has a strong SQEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

May 19 Monday feeding Video from RRP forum
http://youtu.be/Q4V_39aPi24

:eggface:

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

1 chick, 1 egg, 1 fluff that wasn't moving

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

sky, that is a sad snippy. :(

Its a sweet, excellent memory snip tho. *snif*
That brave chick struggled so hard for LIFE, for days. RIP little one, with Mom Norfolk across Rainbow Bridge.
I hold NO hope for the remaining egg. Both were quite cracked 2 days ago.
Both far beyond when they'd hatch.
The SS is alive with speculations as to why from weather to whatever.
Birds laid excessive eggs this year - as if they knew survival would be way down.
Nature knows, HE is wise.

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

May 20 my name suggestion for Lone Chick is
Trami - child of Travis and Michelle

9.30 am Trami Tumbles is back against the wall again - still falling over
That egg looks like the chicks butt hatched but it cant get out - I think its chupping but cant be certain
M seems very concerned, keeps checking

10.45 am TOO FUNNY! Michele exited, Travis came in with prey and began to feed baby.
Michele returned, grabbed prey and left squawking! Travis just stood looking
Mom wants to feed baby herself. I do believe baby is a bit bigger today!
Michele went away to de-feather prey to keep nestbox clean.
Michelle is particular about meal preparation. Probably why nestbox is so clean.

I got a pretty good snip of the half hatched egg who fought so hard for life.
It'd be an insult to call him inviable or a fetus!

SS GSBDweller posted May 20 at 9.45 am
Thinking we may end up with just one hatch, but wud be pleasantly surprised if more

name suggestions I am seeing on SS - and some I added on my own
Bluffy - thats cute! .. spirit, macintosh - I dont like that at all
Trami - child of Travis and Michelle - like they do with horses!

delawaerie · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:51 am **Posts:** 94

I took these snips a little earlier. Michelle pushed the half open egg out in front of her, I guess she realizes it's gone. I still have not seen any comment or explanation from RRP

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

o good Del, thanks for those snips - I took this snip earlier before I went out.
Just getting back now.

noon - Decisions are such lonely things

12.45 pm Trami Tumbles is still falling over
Michele watches and watches the fluffy egg. I keep thinking its chirping but not sure.
It'd be easier to watch if the eggs were all infertile. Its hard to see the failure of struggles for life.
3 pm Trami Tumbles is still falling over - up .. CRASH .. up ...CRASH
I dont recall hatchlings falling over this much

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

Thanks for the great pics..

earlier..that I never got posted..(side tracked by the Banding at Columbus)

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

4 pm Travis shift, baby pulls at his chest feathers squeeling

sky those are beautiful! I LOVE wings shots! With DSL its hard to get decent ones.
Dusty has 4 gorgeous pics of GSB afternoon May 20 over on RRP - evidently he framed them.

bev. · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2014 6:33 pm

nice wing SGB

so glad to see a healthy chick. Onward and upward

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

May 21 Wednesday GSB
5 am feeding Trami Tumbles. She makes enough NOISE for 5 babies!
Trami Tumbles is still flopping all over the place.
5.35 am Travis flies by calling - Michelle quacks to him
5.45 am Another feed

CHICK NOTES
Trami has 2 sounds - 1 like a siren scream and a chup chup. Thats what fooled me yesterday into thinking it was an egg - it wasnt.
Trami is using the eggs as a pillow. Would that be why parents dont remove them?

:egg19:

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

5.53 am Travis nibbling on the half hatched fluffy egg
6.45 am Mom removed fluffy the half hatch, now only Trami and 1 egg

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

9.15 am Trami bumps Travis - he does NOT like that.
When Mom returns, he just cant wait to get OUTTA there!

Trami bumps Travis

raptorresource posted video on SS May 21
Michelle removes egg from nestbox
http://goo.gl/AIWral

:girlsad3:

` Out of 5 eggs, only one chick. 2 died in the egg, 1 died almost out of the egg, 1 infertile which she ate.
May 21 morning she removed the fluffy half hatch from the box

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

Thanks for the coverage...I saw the pic on RRP of Michelle removing the failed hatch (coincidentally, the same one..LOL). On one hand, I'm glad she's taken it out..but, on the other, with the removal goes the evidence.

For Documentation purposes, I have: 1 dud, 1 chick, 2 failed hatches, 1 egg (for now)

delawaerie · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:51 am **Posts:** 94

I never thanked you for the reply to my Q Skygirlblue. Thank you!

I have been watching the GSB nest box for a few years now and this is the first time I have seen so many hatch failures. I have also noticed a good many have been happening around the country but I'm not sure if this is normal or not because I mainly watched GSB in the past. I guess I should just take all this in and let the professors and coordinators figure it all out. I'll continue to keep my eyes and ears open and hope we are not seeing the beginning of something wrong. Thanks again.

Shepherd · **Joined:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 pm **Posts:** 6578

MY TURN to ask sky a QUESTION

RPP sprayed the nestbox and area around there for those blackflies / gnats last summer-fall.
Might that have made things toxic?
I KNOW RPP would have used something called - *safe* - but

I snipt this off the RRP video of Michele removing partly hatched egg - chick died.
R.I.P. little Brave one
raptorresource posted video on SS May 21
http://goo.gl/AIWral

skygirlblue · **Joined:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:18 pm **Posts:** 64406

Shepherd, I wouldn't think so. I'm sure they used something that was "pet safe" and even it it wasn't, that was a year ago and the toxins would have degraded over time (unless they sprayed prior to nesting season and I'm sure it was pet/bird safe. There are lots of things out there that are avian safe....hopefully nobody goofed and picked up the wrong stuff)

Since so many eggs/hatches have failed here, there's gonna be a common theme..I'm just not sure what that's gonna be. weather? viral/bacterial infections? toxins? I have no clue.

..and no, this isn't normal. First we've seen this year. Its normal to have an egg or two not hatch..or to have a late 4th hatch that doesn't survive (because it can't compete with older siblings) or the chicks were sick (like at Wilmington). there are other examples, but for the majority of a clutch to fail?..that's way out of my knowledge base...

The only way they are gonna know for sure what has happened is if the remaining egg stays in the nest and can be retrieved and tested.(if they have the $$)

I am sure there is a biologist, somewhere, that has seen this before and can offer possible causes.

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